Which 12v compressor fridge is the best? My opinions and some data.
At first I wanted an Engel, because it has the best reputation, and I like to spend more money to get something high quality that will last. That said.. The Dometic has better design, better stats, and better features. If you want something that will last forever for twice the initial price and don't mind it being a little noisy (Unconfirmed heresy), get the Engel. I don't think the Dometic will last forever without eventual repair, but the price was right. It's a gamble.
The Dometic (AKA Waeco) has a two? year warranty. It was either that, or $1320 for an Engel MT60 - but I can almost buy TWO Dometic's for that price, so I think the odds are in my favor this way. Furthermore, the Dometic actually draws less power with its variable RPM compressor.
It runs on 12v, 24v, or AC. It's the one of the most efficient afaik, consuming .5a/hr supposedly when it's not running hard. Sawafuji compressors (Engels proprietary compressor still in use today on their new fridges) are loud, I hear. ARB's are expensive, with less options. Btw, ARB has made a contract for Dometic fridges, so if it's good enough for ARB it's good enough for me. With ARB, what am I getting for my money, a warranty and a name? Whynter and Edgestar are less innovative, lower quality imo, and less efficient.
With the CFX, the modular fridge/freezer design is kickass, digital temp display is way better compared to Engel's lame 1-5 dial, the lid is durable and innovative and replaceable, and the the plastic is lighter weight and has better thermal properties. I think the CFX is not only built better but the best bang for the buck.
I like the simple design of the sawafuji, but it seems noisy to have a piston banging back and forth. This discussion steered me away from them, both the noise and power usage factors especially: http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/Thread-Secol-Danfoss-vs-Sawafuji
And here is a comparison done by rvworldstore:
Warranty: 2? years on the Waeco’s Danfoss. 3 years with the Engel’s Sawafuji.
Durability: The Engel, has been running well for over 30 years. Thirty years from now, maybe we can look back and say the same for the newer 2005 Danfoss powered compressor. (I doubt it, the sawafuji is much simpler with only one moving part and Danfoss compressors do die)
Noise & Vibration: The Danfoss is quieter and almost free of vibration in contrast to the Engel, this is a significant factor if you are trying to sleep nearby. Vibrations can often be felt in motorhomes, caravans or boats fitted with built-in Engel fridges.
Temperature limits: Many test have found that in the higher temperatures (around 45-50 deg) the Sawafuji performance is not as good as the Danfoss. The Danfoss was able to bring the fridge temperature down to a lower temperature.
Power: The Danfoss is more powerful - around 20% more. This is reconfirmed in many tests showing Sawafuji compressors are much slower to lower the fridge temperature than Danfoss powered fridges.
Efficiency: Waeco is the clear winner.
Cold Climate Test Results: 25°C > 0°C > 25°C (Avg 17°C)
Waeco CF50 = 3.95A over the 24hr period.
Engel MT45F = 5.20A over the 24hr period.
Hot Climate Test Results: 25°C > 60°C > 25°C (Avg 37°C)
Waeco CF50 = 38.33A over the 24hr period.
Engel MT45F = 45.25A over the 24hr period.
Source: https://www.rvworldstore.co.nz/blog/waecoengel/
I guess if you already have your fridge then this comment is for others. After 8 years of living with our 43 qt Engel in our van, whenever we are traveling, I beg to differ on your statement that it is loud. It is extremely quiet actually. Plus it is totally reliable, easy to use - the dial issue is silly since you either put it on the fridge setting or freezer setting and don't touch it for days or weeks in our experience. And of course, it just sips battery power. So, I hope your Dometic is good for you, but in our view you can't beat an Engel.
ReplyDeleteGood to hear, I've never heard an Engel in person. True also about the dial, just mentioned it because it's one less thing to buy, and having a wire under the door seal seems like it would cause a slight leak, unless it's a wireless sensor if those are made. I just couldn't justify spending twice the price.
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DeleteAre the numbers at the end of your post averaged amps? I looked through at the link, but these units don't actually make much sense. Amps are instantaneous current - if these numbers ARE the averaged values across their multiple sampled values, these should just be listed as average amp-h0urs. This is a common mistake, though, but it only adds to the confusion that non-electrical people have in this space...
ReplyDeleteThe test data is just a copy paste from their website. I think that would be true if they said " 38.33A" but they said " 38.33A over the 24hr period.", specifying an amount of hours. It seems to be a total quantity, not an average. 38.33a/24hrs = 1.59amps/hr. I think that would be an average.
DeleteHey Elliot,
DeleteThanks for the response. My point was actually that whatever study you're basing your data off of is obviously flawed. The units don't make sense. While I can believe the relative numbers, the units are not talking about power consumed or power over time. Battery ratings are listed as "Ah" or amp-hours, which is actually a multiplicative unit, not a "per" or divided unit. Amps, or amperes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere is an instantaneous value of flow, not a "total quantity" of current consumed. It'd be like turning on your kitchen faucet at 20L/minute and saying that's 20L. You have to run the faucet some amount of time before you have 20L. Hopefully that makes sense.
38.33A/24 hours doesn't make sense, 38.33A * 24 hours makes sense, but that's a very different number. If it's an average current, that's fine, but to get power consumption, you have to multiple times voltage times time. So it'd be Wh. Again, no issues with the relative numbers saying which one is more efficient, but I see this misconception ALL OVER THE PLACE in van blogs, and it's super misleading (and confusing!) to people that don't understand the electrical side.
I beg to differ, it does make sense. The author specifies an amount of current (38.33A) and an amount of time (24 hrs). That's amp hours. Amps/hrs. 38.33Amps/24 hours = 1.59 amps per hour. Batteries are most commonly referred to their capacity in amp hours. Watts are a better measurement arguably, but this is the data we have to work with. Amps per hour.
DeleteI think the study averaged the current draw of each device over 24 hours to get a more accurate amp draw, not sure what the issue is with it.
This is still wrong. You can't specify the amount of power used in "amps per hour". You also can't say that the fridge used 38.33A for 24 hours.
DeleteWhat you can say is that, when running, the fridge draws N Amps and that it ran for a total of X hours over a Y hour period. The last measurement, amp hours (NOT amps per hour) but amps times hours is the only valid measurement of the total power drawn by the fridge over a period of time. You could also specify watts if you prefer. Watts is simply volts times amps. If your fridge draws 2.5A at 12 Volts, it's using 30Watts. WHEN IT'S RUNNING.
My Engel draws about 2.4 amps when it's running and at 25C it runs about 1/4 of real time. In other words, it's duty cycle is about fifteen minutes "on time" per hour. My 100Ah Lifeline battery lasts about three days at 25C. No auxiliary insulation.
It's not silent. I can hear it running when it's quiet inside the van. It's very reassuring and certainly doesn't keep me awake.
Thanks Peter... precisely.
Delete@(A)nti - it makes sense if you don't deeply understand the units. My question above asks if the author averaged the draw over time because the units don't work otherwise. Also your point about 1.59 "amps per hour" reinforces the fact that you haven't fully connected the dots. Amps are instantaneous, which means unless it's 1.59 amps averaged over an hour, you can't put a single number on "amps" in an hour (the number changes!).
Watts aren't a better unit, it's exactly the same problem. Ah (or Amps * hours) is the same idea as Wh (or Watts * hours) - they're a measure of (power) *capacity*. Watts is a measure of power. It's truly not "amps per hour." If you want to use the often abused analogy to water flow, it's like saying your battery has a capacity of 100 gallons (Amp-hours). Your water "current" would be how much water flows through the spigot. If you turn the spigot on full blast, you might get 1 gallon per hour (analogy of 1A). Thus, at this current, or flow, it would (obviously) take 100 hours to fully deplete the reservoir, or battery (this is overly simplified because you never want to do that in a battery...). Saying "1 amp per hour" would be like saying 1 gallon per hour per hour, as amps is a measure of current (water) FLOW, not the water itself. You're saying a "rate of flow" per unit of time. The rate of flow is already in a unit of "per time." (.. although I'm sure that explanation only added to the confusion).
This is a super, super common mistake/misconception, so don't take this response the wrong way.
Note: IF the study averaged the current over the hour, then I accept the calculations, but the units are still wrong.
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Prices must have changed because today quart size to quart size the price between a Dometic and an Engel are within $50. So in that case I have to Engel for reliability alone. Ratings on most websites also are higher for the Engel.
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